PCI Cards
Subject: Re: PCI cards: order significant?From: Matthew Pritzker mpritzke@indiana.edu
Date: Fri, Mar 3, 2000 4:56 AM
Message-id: <38BFA876.4EA9@indiana.edu>
Tom Tom Harrington wrote:
>
> Does it matter how PCI cards are arranged in a system? Here's the
> deal:
>
> Months ago I added an Entrega USB card to my beige G3/266. I put it in
> slot C1 (the one on the left) because the location was convenient for
> the USB cables that would come out the back. All was well.
>
> This week I added an Adaptec 2930U SCSI card, which I put in slot B1
> (the middle one). It worked OK, but the USB card stopped working. I
> mean the system didn't even see it; Apple Systme Profiler, which had
> reported the USB slots, could no longer find them.
>
> So, I moved the USB card to slot A1 (the one on the right). Now, both
> cards work just fine.
>
> What's the deal? Why would it make a difference which card goes in
> what PCI slot?
The order of the cards affects the order in which the system probes them at boot-time. If there are OpenFirmware ROMs to be loaded into memory, then perhaps one of them is pickier about which chunk of memory it loads into.
*
Subject: Re: PCI cards: order significant?
From: p-lefebvre@REMOVEnwu.edu (Phil Lefebvre)
Date: Fri, Mar 3, 2000 8:38 AM
Message-id: <p-lefebvre-0303000938010001@p-lefebvre.rehab.nwu.edu>
>The order of the cards affects the order in which the system probes them
>at boot-time. If there are OpenFirmware ROMs to be loaded into memory,
>then perhaps one of them is pickier about which chunk of memory it loads
>into.
OrangeMicro told me that sometimes a PCI card can take too much power from the PCI bus, not leaving enough for other cards. Power goes from A->C, so maybe the SCSI card was cutting off power to the USB card.
***
Subject: Re: PCI 2.1????
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Gary W. McIntyre <gwmcintyre@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> I've been looking to add a USB card to my PM8550, but I keep running into
> requirements of PCI version 2.1, but I haven't had any luck finding out when
> that spec was added to Macs...
>
> Does anyone know if the 8550 is PCI 2.1?
The only models I can pinpoint for certain from the developer notes are
as follows:
- The original 7200, 7500, 8500 and 9500 and all appropriate 4xxx, 5xxx
and 6xxx models are PCI 2.0.
- The original G3 machines ("beige") are PCI 2.1.
I cannot find any mention of PCI 2.1 in the delta documentation on the
7200, 7300, 7600, 8500, 8600 or 9500, 9600. I expect your 8550 is based
on the 8500 architecture, implying that it is almost certainly PCI 2.0.
--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz
*
From: Phil Lefebvre (p-lefebvre@GOnorthwestern.edu)
Subject: Re: PCI 2.1????
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Date: 2002-08-14 08:20:05 PST
In article <1fgxj3w.1l0a5au18piykgN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:
> Gary W. McIntyre <gwmcintyre@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > I've been looking to add a USB card to my PM8550,
> >
> > Does anyone know if the 8550 is PCI 2.1?
> I expect your 8550 is based
> on the 8500 architecture, implying that it is almost certainly PCI 2.0.
True, but don't sweat it. Yes, those PCI cards will work better in 2.1
slots, but they will work fine in the 2.0 slots. Nearly anyone still
running an 8500 today has at least a USB card, and they all work. More
problems are caused by the device drivers than by the PCI 2 vs. 2.1
issue.
Just make sure the USB card is OHCI-compliant, and you should be fine.
--
Phil Lefebvre
Chicago, IL
Remove GO from e-mail address to reply.
My Own Personal FAQ
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc,comp.sys.mac.miscSubject: Re: My Own Personal FAQ
From: andrew@netneurotic.de (Andrew J. Brehm)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:02:16 +0200
Message-id: <1evemf1.sq9xv37c33jyN%andrew@netneurotic.de>
Ben Sharvy <bsharvy@efn.org> wrote:
> Explain:
>
> 1) Sawtooth vs. Yikes and how to tell the difference.
Two different Apple mainboard. Sawtooth has an AGP and Airport slot. Yikes! does not.
> 2) Aqua, Carbon, Cocoa, Quartz
Aqua: MacOS X's user interface (analogue "Finder")
Carbon: an API (program environment)
Cocoa: also an API, formely named "OpenSTEP"
Quartz: the GUI of MacOS X (basically)
> 3) Wallstreet, Pismo, and all the other codenames for Powerbooks and how
> to tell the difference and why we don't have some model number actually
> printed on the damn case so we can tell the difference.
Different mainboards. You don't actually have to know them.
> 4) L2 cache, backside cache, onboard cache and god knows what other kind
> of cache I need to know about to make an informed shopping decision.
Cache: something to store data in to make good for different speeds of other memory types and CPUs (imagine you are copying home work and the person you copy from is only willing to give you his papers for 15 minutes, but you'd need 30 minutes to copy it, but your friend Willy can copy it within 15 minutes, and you can then copy it from him afterwards).
Thus: cache: your friend Willy.
L2 cache: imagine Willy only has 25 minutes and must then go with his papers. Imagine Pauly can copy Willy's writing in 25 minutes and you copy from Pauly later.
Thus: L2 cache: Pauly.
Backside cache: you copy everything you can, and write it down quickly first, later you copy it again and write it down so others can read it.
backside cache
<hardware, processor> An implementation of secondary cache
memory that allows it to be directly accessed by the CPU.
Backside cache is used by Apple Computers, Inc. in their
PowerPC G3 processor. Previous PowerPC processors used the
system bus to access both secondary cache and main memory.
In the PowerPC G3 a dedicated bus handles only CPU/cache
transactions. This bus can operate faster than the system bus
thus improving the overall performance of the processor.
The term apparently derives from the relocation of the
secondary cache from the motherboard to the processor card
itself, i.e. on the backside of the processor card.
onboard cache: pretty much says it
Backside is fine.
-- Fan of Woody Allen PowerPC User Supporter of Pepperoni Pizza
*
From: Ben <ben.hines@r.emove.verizon.net.invalid>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: My Own Personal FAQ
Message-id: <ben.hines-9424FA.23403421062001@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 06:37:57 GMT
In article <jcicora-49E6B4.23033121062001@newsfeed.slurp.net>,
Joshua Cicora <jcicora@crosswinds.net> wrote:
> Carbon -> programming interface for older apps to run in classic mode
Bzzt. Apps which run in classic mode are by definition not Carbonized.
Carbon is an API which lets older apps be easily updated to run fully native on OSX.
-Ben
-- bhines (at) san.rr.com
*
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 11:11:42 -0700
From: billbjohnson55@NoSPAMhotmail.com (Bill B. Johnson)
Subject: Re: My Own Personal FAQ
The Yikes has audio in and out ports oriented horizonally .. The Sawtooth has audio in and out ports oriented vertically : The Sawtooth is newer and has better technology aka internals.
--
If you wish to send me e-mail, delete the word NoSPAM from my e-mail address.
*
From: tacitr@aol.com (Tacit)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
Date: 22 Jun 2001 16:54:57 GMT
Subject: Re: My Own Personal FAQ Status:
When the very first Power Mac G4 system came out, it was using a modified G3 B&W logic board. Apple did this so they could get the G4 to market as fast as possible.
Later, Apple designed a new logic board for the G4.
The early, modified-G3 system was called "Yikes." The first completely redesigned G4 logic board was called "Sawtooth." Yikes uses a PCI graphics card; Sawtooth uses a faster AGP graphics card (among other differences).
Aqua: The user interface for OS X. It features translucent buttons, throbbing default buttons, drop shadows on windows, and so on.
Carbon: One of two different APIs for OS X. An API is the set of services that a programmer can use when he writes a program. There are, for example, API calls for "Create a window," API calls for "Draw a button," API calls for "Read a file from disk." The programmer does not need to write subroutines to do these things; the operating system can already do them.
Carbon is an API that closely resembles the API of the older MacOS. Programs written to run on older MacOS versions can be modified to use Carbon very easily.
Cocoa: The other of two APIs for MacOS X. Cocoa is an API and an application framework. It is based on the NeXT OPENSTEP framework. Programs that are written to use the Cocoa API can do some things more easily than programs written to use the Carbon API. But there is a catch: If you are a programmer, you cannot modify an existing program to use Cocoa. You have to start over from scratch.
Quartz: The underlying graphics engine for OS X. Quartz is the name for the set of procedures which draws 2D graphics on the screen. Aqua is the user interface for OS X; it uses Quartz to draw on the screen. Quartz handles things like actually calculating the drop shadows for windows and dscribing how they should be drawn, things like that.
>3) Wallstreet, Pismo, and all the other codenames for Powerbooks and how
>to tell the difference and why we don't have some model number actually
>printed on the damn case so we can tell the difference.
The code names are used internally by Apple when they are working on a new computer, in part to preserve secrecy about what they are up to. If you are trying to figure out what Apple is doing, and you find a scrap of paper in the dumpster that says "225 engineers have been assigned to the Pismo project," that tells you less than if you found a scrap of paper saying "225 engineers have been assigned to the new PowerBook that is going to replace the current PowerBook G3."
Steve Jobs thinks model numbers and model names are "confusing." He likes a nice, tidy arrangement: This is our consumer desktop. This is our pro desktop. This is our consumer laptop. This is our pro laptop. It's annoying, really.
>4) L2 cache, backside cache, onboard cache and god knows what other kind
>of cache I need to know about to make an informed shopping decision.
A processor's "cache" is a special kind of very, very fast memory that the processor stores recently-accessed data in.
Processors are faster than system memory. Much, much, much faster. In fact, your computer's main memory is so slow, when your processor wants to get an instruction or a bit of data from main memory, it has to wait for the memory to supply the data. And wait. And wait. In some cases, it has to wait for as long as 500 "ticks" of the system clock, or longer. During this time, it is sitting idle, doing nothing.
Clearly, the fastest processor in the world is going to do you no good at all if it spends 500 times as long sitting around waiting as it does processing!
So processor engineers designed a "cache."
The logic of a cache is this:
If a processor goes out and gets an instruction from memory, the odds are pretty good that as son as it is done executing that instruction, it will need the very next insuruction after that one from memory.
So whenever the processor puts in a request for an instruction from memory, the processor does not grab just that one instruction--it grabs a whole bunch of instructions and data, and stuffs them all in the cache. Then, when it needs the next instruction, it can get it from the cache (which is very fast); it doesn't need to take a trip out to main memory (which is very slow).
An on-board cache is a cache that is engraved on the same chip as the processor. It is just as fast as the processor. The processor can pull stuff out if it, no waiting.
An L2 (or "Level 2") cache is a cache that is a separate chip. It is not quite as fast as the processor, but it is still faster than main memory.
A "backside" cache is an L2 cache that has its own separate connection to the processor. A "frontside cache" sits in between the processor and main memory. A backside cache is faster than a frontside cache. Both are examples of L2 caches, and both are faster than main memory.
Hope that helps.
AV Macs
From: Ben Sharvy <bsharvy@efn.org>Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Subject: What Happened to the AV Mac?
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 19:12:34 -0700
Message-id: <bsharvy-A0D404.19123423062001@news.efn.org>
I have G3 7500 and I'm thinking of buying a new Mac, but I'm concerned about the audio features. They seem to be sorely lacking these days. What does a PCI audio card cost that is comparable in quality to the audio in the 7500 or other AV beige PPCs?
Or, am I missing something and has there been a G4 AV Mac?
*
From: Charles Martin <stareinawe@myhairyballs.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Subject: Re: What Happened to the AV Mac?
C9P+4yyb@4\57ofA/lYRM
Message-id: <2PgZ6.36480$WB1.11025469@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 07:39:42 GMT
Oh dear, this IS a complicated question!
In as much of a nutshell as I can manage: Apple believes that the path of Digital Audio is best for most customers, and that's what it provides onboard. My understanding is that the sound components on the motherboard of a G4 are as good as they've ever been (44.1KHz, 16-bit true stereo in and out), it's just that they've removed any analog way to input audio (apart from the iMac, which still has an analog audio-in).
Ultimately, I think Apple is right. The current Digital Audio situation is unacceptable to audio people, but that will change with time and when more USB-friendly resources are out there. In five years everyone will be working that way, but right now it ain't pretty.
Musicians and audio people who would like to work with MIDI, with RCA jacks or other analog in (or need higher sampling rates, like 48KHz and higher) will need to buy a PCI card that should run around $150-200. The bonus is that you will likely get better performance and of course much more "bandwidth" out of these cards on a G4 than you did on a 7500, but I'm just a novice audio guy so perhaps others will have more to say on the subject, particularly in the area of what cards are good for what purpose and so on. I use either a 3400c laptop with 1/8th analog input and/or a Quadra 840AV to do my sound captures, which has worked fine for my modest needs.
--
_Chas_ (non-spammers should use "chasm" at mac-dot-com instead of the email above!)
"Call me old-fashioned, but I want to read email with an email client, news with a newsreader, and browse with a browser. A Swiss army knife is no substitute for a toolbox."
*
From: Avery Raskin <araskin@mac.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Subject: Re: What Happened to the AV Mac?
Message-id: <araskin-3ED3F9.23112323062001@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 06:11:57 GMT
I believe the iMic is audio only but that's USB. As for DV bridges, I bought a Dazzle mostly due to the cost difference and it works great.
*
From: "Wayne C. Morris" <wayne.morris@this.is.invalid>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Subject: Re: What Happened to the AV Mac?
Message-id: <wayne.morris-EE5204.13113924062001@nw1nr.wp.wave.shaw.ca>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 18:11:38 GMT
> I believe the iMic is audio only but that's USB.
Yes, it's audio only. It supports both input and output. The bandwidth of USB is more than adequate for CD-quality stereo.
*
From: Ben Sharvy <bsharvy@efn.org>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Subject: Re: What Happened to the AV Mac?
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:53:33 -0700
Message-id: <bsharvy-C0CD66.20533324062001@news.efn.org>
More info.
My Mac is hooked up to stereo. So, I can record from the radio or turntable onto the harddrive. And I can play sounds on my Mac through the stereo. It is easy to do with an old-style AV Mac. Is there a G4 which can be hooked up to my stereo with equal ease? How about a G3 Powerbook? If not, what would it cost to add the capability to a G4 with a quality comparable to that of my 7500?
*
From: "Wayne C. Morris" <wayne.morris@this.is.invalid>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Subject: Re: What Happened to the AV Mac?
Message-id: <wayne.morris-9CE6C6.11043025062001@nw1nr.wp.wave.shaw.ca>
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 16:04:30 GMT
The latest G4's still have a 1/8" headphone jack which can be used to connect it to amplified speakers. I'm not sure whether the signal level would be compatible with stereo inputs.
None of the current G4s have audio input jacks. Connecting your radio or turntable would require the addition of a PCI card (such as a SoundBlaster) or a USB or Firewire device.
The iMic is probably the cheapest option (about $40 US), and will give you both inputs & outputs with CD-quality sound. If your turntable has a built-in pre-amp, it can be connected directly to the iMic; otherwise you'll need a pre-amp or stereo in between to amplify the signal.
I ordered an iMic, but I'm still waiting for it to arrive, so I can't report on how well it works.
*
From: Walter Starbuck <wjs@ramjac.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Subject: Re: What Happened to the AV Mac?
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:54:30 -0700
Message-id: <wjs-210674.09543025062001@news.apple.com>
In article <wayne.morris-9CE6C6.11043025062001@nw1nr.wp.wave.shaw.ca>, "Wayne C. Morris" <wayne.morris@this.is.invalid> wrote:
> I ordered an iMic, but I'm still waiting for it to arrive, so I can't
> report on how well it works.
I have one, and I agree, it DOES work.
But I find it to be irritatingly susceptable to picking up 60 Hz (50Hz for you less civilized types) hum, regardless of how well the inputs to my audio amplifier are grounded/shielded.
WS
*
From: Avery Raskin <araskin@mac.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Subject: Re: What Happened to the AV Mac?
Message-id: <araskin-3D3039.21502824062001@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 04:51:05 GMT
The PB-G3s all had minipin audio in and out, so yes, you could hook them up.
I bought a Dazzle Hollywood DV bridge for my G4. Has FireWire, RCA audio/video, and SVHS in and out, and Control-S. Works great connecting analog audio and video directly to the Mac through FireWire.
Extra PCI Slots
From: Steve Leibel <stevel@bluetuna.com>Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Subject: Any way to get more PCI slots?
Message-id: <stevel-47C4A5.10423503072001@nyctyp01.rdc-nyc.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:42:37 GMT
My 3-slot 7500 is out of slots. I have an ATI video card, a USB card, and a FireWire card. I need to add a second ethernet card. Short of replacing my USB and FireWire cards with one of the combo cards (I should have thought of that earlier!) is there any other solution?
*
From: firewire20@hotmail.com (jdc)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Subject: Re: Any way to get more PCI slots?
Date: 4 Jul 2001 09:58:35 -0700
Message-id: <c3b19d90.0107040858.6cc8026d@posting.google.com>
the combo card (FireWire/USB) is the way to go to open up a slot.
check www.fwdepot.com for a combo card and check www.barefeats.com for test results and comparisons on various cards
*
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
From: jimglidewell@home.com (Jim Glidewell)
Subject: Re: Any way to get more PCI slots?
Message-id: <jimglidewell-0307011632440001@green.sdc.cs.boeing.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 23:32:44 GMT
Well, first off I'd ask why you need a second ethernet card. Running IPNR for routing? If so, I'd probably recommend spending the money on a hardware router instead.
If there is some other reason why you need a second ethernet port, I'd suggest getting the combo card and offloading the USB and firewire cards though ebay or similar, which will offset the cost of the combo card a bit.
A PCI expansion chassis would be about my last choice.
I run the dual ethernet IPNR setup myself (on an 8500), but I set things up that way when HW router boxes were still $300+. With hardware routers starting at $100 or so, it's hard to justify the cost of the software routing option, especially if you'll have to acquire/replace other hardware to do so.
--
Jim Glidewell
My opinions only
*
From: Angela Kahealani <angela@kahealani.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Subject: Re: Any way to get more PCI slots?
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 12:29:52 -1000
Message-id: <3B42474B.78B8FB1B@kahealani.com> Reply-To: angela@kahealani.com
Yes, there is a company which makes an expansion PCI unit which can attach to either a PowerBook via a PC-Card interface, or to an existing PCI-bus system via a PCI card. Depending on how many slots you get in the expansion module, the cost can exceed that of a nice used Mac. Unfortunately I forget the company name, but a search on Google.Com ought to find it. It has most often been used by PowerBook users needing PCI slots for professional video &/| audio interface cards.
--
All information + transactions non negotiable and private between the parties. All Rights Reserved + Copyright 2001 Angela Kahealani. <URL:http://www.kahealani.com>
*
From: Paul Sian <psian-NOSPAM@mediaone.net>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Subject: Re: Any way to get more PCI slots?
Message-id: <psian-NOSPAM-C4BA14.10455503072001@detyp01.mw.mediaone.net>
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:46:56 GMT
There are expansion chassis which have additional PCI slots for your computer. Price wise I think you would be better of buying a combo USB/Firewire card.
--
Please remove -NOSPAM for email
RAM disk
From: Mark R. Smith (mark1smi@hotpop.com)Subject: Re: RAM disk limit?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Date: 2001-12-09 18:06:00 PST
> Is there a limit on the size of a RAM disk? I have about 400 MB RAM. I
> wanted to make a 350 MB RAM disk, but the setting in the memory
> control panel topped out at around 200 MB--about 50% of the available
> physical RAM. I don't use virtual memory.
>
> I've been thinking it would be good to have enough RAM that you could
> extract a CD to a RAM disk, and then burn it directly from that. But
> if that means having 1.5 GB of RAM it probably isn't worth it.
>
> Running MacOS 8.6 on 7500/G3
Hello All,
For about 2 years I've been using a program called "AppDisk". You can
create a RAM disk as large as the amount of available memory you have.
I've used it with OS8.6 up to 9.21 on a B&W G3.
Mark
--
mark1smi@hotpop.com
Mark Smith
Davis, Ca. USA
*
From: Dave Pooser (bubbadv@NOcyberrampSPAMDOTnet.invalid)
Subject: Re: RAM disk limit?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Date: 2001-12-09 19:15:16 PST
In article <mark1smi-4515FE.18020009122001@news.cwnet.com>, Mark R.
Smith <mark1smi@hotpop.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> For about 2 years I've been using a program called "AppDisk".
And I used it to make a 900MB RAMdisk. (Virtual PC uns great when the "C drive" file is on a RAM disk. Quiet too....
--
Bubba Dave Pooser
If life gives you lemons, grab a sniper rifle,
find a bell tower, and go hog wild!
*
From: asif (whatever@nevermind.invalid)
Subject: Re: RAM disk limit?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Date: 2001-12-11 13:41:43 PST
256 megs max in System 6 thru OS 9, assuming you have that much physical RAM.
Go to Apple's Support page and search on "ram disk"
/whatever
*
From: asif (whatever@nevermind.invalid)
Subject: Re: RAM disk limit?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Date: 2001-12-19 20:29:54 PST
> Why did Apple do that?
No clue. But considering that, until very recently, RAM was expensive,
there probably was little reason to think people would want more. I've
been using an excellent shareware app called RAMBunctious (look it up on versiontracker if it sounds useful). It allows multiple RAM disks. RAM disks can be write-through if you wish to save data between restarts. All RAM is application RAM so it's reclaimed by the system if you dismount a RAM disk (you don't have to restart to get your RAM back). One downside, you cannot use one of its disks to boot your system.
/whatever
Pascal & OS X
From: Peter
Subject: Pascal on system X
Newsgroups: symantec.support.devtools.mac.pascal.programmer,
comp.sys.mac.programmer,comp.sys.mac.programmer.codewarrior
Date: 2004-06-24 01:14:06 PST
Hello,
Merlijn is a softwaredeveloper for administrative software for the
Macintosh. From the beginning we have relied on CodeWarrior and have
over the years developed a very large codebase and several elaborate
projects.
Since the release of Mac OS Jaguar we have looked for a way to switch to
a new language, because new versions of CodeWarrior don't have official
support for Pascal. The Pascal plugin has helped us to extend our use of
the Pascal codebase we have, but with recent versions even that seems
out of the question.
Now we have two questions :
- is there anywhere a reliable Pascal developmentsystem for the Mac, we
could use for the next years ?
- What can we do to migrate to a new language? C or C++ ? Also we would
like to be Cocoa native this time, and not rely on the Carbon stuff anymore.
We tried some P2c solutions a few years ago, but none of then worked real
good.
As we are a small developer we would like to avoid long conversion times
as much as we can. Are there any other tools that would help us convert our
Pascal Code to say, C code?
Any suggestions/ help/ comments are more than welcome.
Kind regards,
Peter Haas
Merlijn Automatisering B.V. The Netherlands.
*
From: David Phillip Oster
Subject: Re: Pascal on system X
Newsgroups: symantec.support.devtools.mac.pascal.programmer,comp.sys.mac.programmer,comp.sys.mac.programmer.codewarrior
Date: 2004-06-24 22:00:02 PST
I'm sorry. I don't understand. What is the big deal? Sure you have to
run all your source code through a program like MPW's Canon to
canonicalize all the spelling, but then, for each construct in the
Pascal language there is a similar construct in C, and C++ is even
easier, since VAR parameters translate to C++ References.
Yes, you'll have to expand out WITH statements, and yes, since C/C++
doesn't support nested functions you'll need to group local variables in
the outer function into a struct, then explicitly pass a pointer to this
as a new parameter to nested functions, and if those nested functions
themselves have nested functions, then you'll have to copy that pointer
into a new field of the inner local struct, simulating the Pascal
compiler's own frame pointer implementation. You'll also need automatic
renaming so that the inner function names don't conflict with similarly
named functions in the global context.
But none of this is hard. None of this is even as hard as writing a
compiler, which is a sophmore computer science project. Why, when you
*
From: Jonathan Hoyle
Subject: Re: Pascal on system X
Newsgroups: symantec.support.devtools.mac.pascal.programmer,
comp.sys.mac.programmer
Date: 2004-06-25 08:35:06 PST
> Now we have two questions :
> - is there anywhere a reliable Pascal developmentsystem for the Mac, we
> could use for the next years ?
This has been a long standing problem, I'm sorry to say. Pascal is a
great language, but unfortunately, it is so similar to C that people
have simply moved onto that...not necessarily because C is better (it
certainly is in some things, not in others), but because the
marketshare for C has been so dominant. 10 years ago, when Symantec
was pocket-vetoing Think Pascal, Metrowerks came to the rescue and
continued to support it. Now they have found that the market doesn't
seem to bear it out any longer.
Since I too have since kicked the Pascal habit, I have not had any
experience with it, but the only one I am aware of is GNU Pascal for
Mac OS X: http://www.microbizz.nl/gpc.html .
> - What can we do to migrate to a new language? C or C++ ? Also we would
> like to be Cocoa native this time, and not rely on the Carbon stuff anymore.
Cocoa would require you to switch to Objective-C. A much easier
transition (so it would seem to me) is Carbon using C. However, if
you are ready to make a clean break to a brand new API and a brand new
language all at the same time, then the entire Mac development world
is open to you.
I would strongly urge you to consider RealBasic. It is very powerful,
easy to use and cross-platform. hard to beat that combination.
If p2c didn't work for you, I would recommend simply making the
conversion from Pascal to C manually. 80% of your Pascal code will
have a 1 to 1 line conversion going to C. Certain data types, such as
sets, will require more work (usually converted to bit flags in C),
but your Carbon calls will remain essentially the same.
How many lines of code are we talking about here?
Jonathan Hoyle
Gene Codes Corporation
*
From: B. Gehre
Subject: Re: Pascal on system X
Newsgroups: symantec.support.devtools.mac.pascal.programmer,
comp.sys.mac.programmer,
Date: 2004-07-19 15:47:48 PST
http://pascal-central.com/
A great resource for all Mac Pascal-Programmers who use older or more
recent versions of the Metrowerks CodeWarrior Development Studio.
> - What can we do to migrate to a new language? C or C++ ? Also we would
> like to be Cocoa native this time, and not rely on the Carbon stuff anymore.
Cocoa is a moving target. If you never want to port your applications
to other platforms, then use Cocoa/Obj-C. Otherwise use C/C++ and
Carbon/Cocoa.
Details:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/CarbonCocoaDoc/CocoaCarbonDoc.html
Bruce Gehre,
PPC Assembly Programmer
e-mail: bruce at gehre dot org
Miscellaneous
From: Eric Albert <ejalbert@stanford.edu>Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Subject: Re: What's in a Mac Server?
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 02:24:19 -0700
Message-id: <ejalbert-0ECC9D.02241915052001@nntp.stanford.edu>
In article <bsharvy-EF8AB6.20311514052001@news.efn.org>,
Ben Sharvy <bsharvy@efn.org> wrote:
> Sometimes I see ads for Mac servers. What exactly is the difference
> between a machine marketed as a server and a "regular" Mac? They look
> the same in the pictures.
Not too much. Servers often ship with SCSI cards and SCSI hard drives, as well as AppleShare IP. But there's no fundamental difference between a PowerMac G4 server and a PowerMac G4.
> Also, what is the difference between MacOS X for servers and the new
> MacOS X?
That's a much larger difference. :) Mac OS X Server 1.2 (the current version) is a direct derivative of NeXTSTEP with a Mac OS-like interface. Mac OS X 10.0.x is a combination of FreeBSD, NeXTSTEP, and the Mac OS, with a new interface called Aqua.
A new version of Mac OS X Server is supposedly coming out soon and will be based on Mac OS X 10.0.
-Eric
-- Eric Albert ejalbert@stanford.edu http://www.stanford.edu/~ejalbert/
***
From: Charles Eicher <ceicher@inav.net>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage
Subject: Re: B&W G3 Rev1 or Rev2 Positive ID please?
Date: 27 May 2001 08:06:45 -0700
Message-id: <9er5650trr@edrn.newsguy.com>
In article <o322htcgu5h1sr3b8c4uan8nbcfnvnd4pc@4ax.com>, tim says...
>
>A friend of mine has had nothing but problems with her B&W G3. She
>recently had the logic board replaced at a cost of $500+ USD. I'd like
>to be sure it wasn't replaced with an Rev1 board. I have some digital
>pics of the board and various serial numbers on it. This is not a
>binaries group, but they are available. First I'd like to make sure
>it's a Rev2 motherboard and go from there. She has a brand new IBM
>ATA/100 60g HD on one of the onboard ATA/33 controllers along with her
>original Quantum 6g as a slave. Seems like it should be backward
>compatible. the other controller runs the DVD and IDE Zip drive.
There was apparently an incompatibility between the rev 1 boards and slave IDE drives. You can get the details you seek at:
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G3-ZONE/yosemite/IDE/ http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/IDE/add_2nd_drive/index.html
***
Subject: Re: Newbie/PB 165
From: clarkm@pacbell.net (Clark Martin)
Date: Sat, 22 January 2000 12:11 AM EST
Message-id: <clarkm-2101002111220001@eagle.martin.home>
In article <tinman-2001000703090001@mac-ara-port1.cs.unc.edu>, tinman@unc.edu (tinman) wrote:
>What a lot of people don't understand is that the effects of minor static
>discharge on electrical componants can be cumulative. When you zap a
>componant, one thing that can happen is a trace in the circuit board is
>damaged or destroyed. In the former case, you might have performance
>that's not up to spec, in the latter the damage might only cause problems
>rarely since the circuit tied to that trace may not be critical. As more
>traces are damaged, the machine still runs, but gradually gets flakyier.
>Usually this cycle accelerates, as folks tend to try things like reseating
>ram and boards to get around intermittant problems, and are thus back in
>the case, causing more damage.....
Your chances for zapping a trace on a circuit board are slim and none. Most of the high density chips in a computer are generally CMOS or Complimentary Metal Oxide Semiconductor. The MOS part of this is a very thin layer of metal oxide that acts as an insulator. Static breaks down this metal oxide. As you said, this is cumulative. A small hole won't do much but eventually enough damage will eliminate the insulating properties and ruin the circuit. This is the reason why some people get away with saying they don't take anti-static precautions and have never had a problem. What they don't say or know is the "yet" that should go on the end of such a statement.
***
Re: Possible to expand PCI slots in PM8500?
Author: tighelander (Registered User)
Date: 03-19-02 18:46
Yes, to the casual user, the 8500 was just an overpriced computer in a really bad case, but to those in the know, the case was made difficult to open to prevent the average user from stumbling across the power hidden in each 8500. Just as Indiana Jones had to jump through hoops to get the grail in his last crusade, so must the 8500 owner pass a series of three tests that allow only those that are enlightened and hardy enough access to that which a secret cadre of Cupertino druids have so wisely hidden. Even if a determined user gets past the tests of the case, unpluging every cable, and pulling out every card, including the processor, he will see enigmas, like "What's this DAV socket?", and not the many mods that allow the 8500 to keep up with and even surpass the latest from even Apple itself. For example, the mystics, using the wrintings of Nostradamus, have engineered this port to not only output HDTV, but the final HDTV standard that hasn't been adopted yet! Of course, all of this power did not come without a price! Druids do not work cheap, thanks to their shrewd agents, they command fantastic rates, and yet work only "when they're inspired". The last such case of inspiration was the 8500, in which the druids have hidden such tricks as the aforementioned DAV socket, and an arcane process of "interleaving" which allows the 8500 to read TWICE as much data at one time than even the newest computers! Yes, speed enhancements abound for those that know what to look for. Although the druids are mostly a serious lot, unlike their distant cousins, the Keebler Elves, they do have fun on occasion, the Gestalt ID that they gave the 8500 is an example of this. So while some on this forum offer the advice, "Get something newer", the adepts of the 8500 will simply smile a knowing smile, secure in their machines secret superiority.
The first step is at http://www.bigfat.com/mac8500-l/
"Take care to get what you like or you will be forced to like what you
get", George Bernard Shaw, from "Man and Superman"(1903)
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